Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Man, I'm excited about this one. I am excited about this one. We already had a full conversation, so we are prepped, ready to go. I want to say thank you to all our listeners here on the transition podcast who've been tuning in. The goal is to inspire greatness, to impact generations.
And we got a special guest today, my boy, my brother, Doctor Raymar Henderson.
Man, I just appreciate you, bro, for just being here. I appreciate you for being willing to have a conversation with me.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: No doubt, big dog. So it's a pleasure to be here, man. I know it's all love. And I know what we talk about is going to bless your listeners above and beyond.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Absolutely, bro. Absolutely, man. So just a brief background. I got my notes here. Ready to go, Helen, from Carson, California, Long Beach, California, to LBC, holding it down. Yes, sir.
Hey, you know, I ran tracking Polly, too, man. You know. You know, I spent some time out in Long beach, too, brother.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Hey, man, I'm not gonna lie to you, brother. Them jackrabbits are hard to catch, brother.
They was lighting us up in the morale league. 24 7365. So where did you.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Where'd you go to high school?
[00:01:35] Speaker B: I went to high school at Lakewood High.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Yes, sir.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Lake Will Lancer. You understand you, sir?
[00:01:42] Speaker A: I do, I do. So you ran a little bit of track, played a little bit of basketball?
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, ran track all four years, you know, and I hoped. I hoped until 11th grade, right? And then, you know, it was unfortunate I couldn't hoop in my. In my senior year. But interesting, though. Good, good, brother, is that, you know, pretty sure we'll get into it.
You know, I came from parents. They didn't let me really play sports, you know, until the 8th grade, you know what I mean? Because I came from two parents that was like, yo, you know, academics first, sports second, you know what I mean? So, you know, always, always wondered, what would it look like had I would have gotten to the game, you know, earlier, like, some of my peoples, you know what I mean? I do.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: And to. To your credit, man, you are in a game. You are. You are doctor re. Henderson. You are. You are in the game, man. And, uh, just a little backstory on how we met. Um, we have some mutual friends over at Fresno State University, and you were a professor over at Fresno State University. You got your. Your master's degree, you got your doctorates, went on to get your doctorates. Excuse me. You went on and got your doctorates.
That's like, next level, brother. That's in the game. That's in the game. That's a black man. You got your doctorates. You are currently, I'm gonna get this right, psychotherapist?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, yeah, tell me a little bit about that, brother. So, you know, when I got my master's brother, you know, I was at Long Beach State, and, you know, I was struggling. I was struggling in a lot of different ways. I got my undergraduate at Sac State, and I was going to try to make that push to see, like, okay, what would this hoop and thing look like? I was playing. Was playing in some pretty competitive open runs and stuff like that.
And, you know, coming to Long Beach State, I was lost, bro. You know how I made a decision, like, you know, just like, some things we're going to talk about, like, so do I want to continue to chase trying to get to the league or try to play overseas, or do I want to go ahead and get this advanced degree? And so I decided to get the advanced degree.
And I won't lie to you, man. The first year and a half of my master's program, I was like, man, this can't be the finality of my education.
And then I was able to meet a black psychologist by the name of Joseph L. White. And he poured into me, man. He was the first person to tell me that I get a PhD, brother.
And from there, the rest was history, you know what I'm saying? And so that's just a little bit of why I got in the game. So when you say about psychotherapists, you know, brother Isaiah, I told myself, man, because getting a PhD was no easy task. But I told myself that I wanted to work with people like myself, right? If I could have talked to somebody like me when I was going through what I was going through, you know, I think I would have been a lot better off. And so part of working with mental health, you know, part of my desire to work with student athletes, you know, elite athletes, part of my desire to serve black folks, man, is just that, right? It's really to be a servant, you know, having somebody that looks like you in a room, having somebody who has a healthy racial identity, who understands blackness and how that ties into all these different things in the room is really how I see myself as a psychotherapist, man. So you get me. So, the same thing you getting from this podcast is what I look like when I'm working with folks one on one.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: And, man, you have been just a blessing in my life. We already talked about it offline. As soon as you stepped into my life, man, it was an opportunity for me to engage with other black men who understood the lifestyle, the sports lifestyle. And I was able to look to you and even look up at you like, man, this brother has done something that I'm sure not a large percentage of the population, not even just black folks in general, but the population, you know, been able to accomplish and going on and getting your PhD, and especially one who has been serving athletes, man. And we talk about the transition, you know, you were clear. You were precise, and you were. You were raw and honest with me, bro.
Every conversation we had, I was able to gain some insight and some knowledge.
And it's just been a blessing to be able to share space. It's been a blessing to be able to just kind of pick your brain on some things that has allowed me to get to that next level.
And so, man, I'm grateful for you. And so, you know, doc, when you talk about your mentor at that time saying, hey, you can go get your PhD, right? Were there other individuals around you? Was there any other sort of exposure to individuals who you may have known to get their PhD? Especially black folks, black men getting their PhD? Or how was that. How was that process, man? How was that process.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Brother? Let me. Let me tell you a story, if I may. Good, brother. So I remember, like it was yesterday. So I have a, at the time, you know, a member of my thesis, he's married to, at the time, a staff psychologist at UC Irvine, Doctor Hiroshina, who is now working at Long Beach State.
And she said so clearly, she said, raymar, you need to go meet Joe White. Doctor White. And I was like, yeah. So I came, bruh. And I was just like, no way, bro. Today, I was like, man, I never met another black psych. It was cool, right? Because we know how we can get sometimes, right? We get the degree, we get up there, and we forget where we come from, right? But doctor White wasn't. He was. He was different in that respect. So Doctor White and I met. We met at Islands Burgers and Irvine.
And first thing he told me, man, he said, tell your mama that this ain't no weird stuff. I'm looking out for a brother, right? And I said, 100%, you know what I mean? And he said another thing I never forget. He said, I don't want nothing from you. He said, only thing I want is for you to pay it forward. Which is why when you asked me to be be on your show, brother, I said, no problem at all. And then from there, brother. He introduced me to all of his mentees, right? Some are lawyers, some are psychologists, some are college presidents, so forth and so on, and all black men. Good, brother. And so being able to see black men who was keeping it all the way a stack, right. While teaching me how to be a professional, man, these things were invaluable to me. Good brother. And it really taught me that I could do it, too. Right.
And I'll be remiss if I didn't say this as well, man. I want to lift up my pops, man. So while, you know, my pops, blue collar marine, he was also able to help me understand what it meant to persevere and never quit. You know what I mean? And so when you ask me about professionals that I saw, and these are professionals that I saw, good, brother. You know, I know. Right now we got the beef between Drake and KDOt. You know, how many young people gonna be able to walk up to a Drake or Kendrick?
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: You know, on the other hand, you could walk up to a black psychologist, right, or a black man with a PhD. Right. Or a black professor and say, yo, hey, man, let's break bread. Let's go get. Let's go get a vegan meal. You know what I mean? And really talk about life. Talk about the next steps, bro. And that was the experiences that would afford it to me.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Big dog, did you get a lot of. Did you get a lot of individuals. Did you get a lot of athletes or individuals that play sports that had that proximity to you and said, hey, whether they were unsure about how to perform at a high level or whether they were coming out of a transition period, how's your work with servant athletes been with your expertise in your field? How's that been for you, bro?
[00:10:55] Speaker B: It's been awesome, bro. One of the first. One of the first times I got, like, hands on experience, big dog was at Cal State Fullerton. Yeah, it was an. It was an optional talk that I gave to the track team, right?
So head coach was there, assistant coach was there, and quiet is kept maybe about 15 to 20 athletes, right? It was free. And, you know, I was excited to be on, man. So I was like, yo, man, I guess my first opportunity, and I talked about goal setting, right. And I talked about the ability to set goals, right, process goals, intermediate goals, and long distance goals. And, you know, when you work in this space, brother Isaiah, you know, it's kind of. You have to learn as a. As a consultant, how do you communicate with elite athletes in ways that they can understand, right. Because anybody can read a book. Not everybody can translate what's in that book and make it applicable, right? So, you know, as I was preparing, man, I was super nervous, but when I got out there, I was like, man, I've been here. I've done this, right? So let me. Let me take a different approach to how I was talking to these athletes. And, you know, aside from the non verbals, like the head nods, you know, it was late in May. Coach came up to me, man, he said, I just want to let you know, either easy to four or five of these student athletes, man, that made it to the quarters of the two way, and they attribute talk to somebody's success, bro.
And, man, that was the biggest, that was the biggest boost, man, because it was unsolicited. My brother, he was unsolicited. And just in, like, for example, a lot of the brothers that I work with because I work with all sports, but I've been extremely successful working with a lot of basketball players and just having basketball brothers, man, to really circle back, whether they add me on social, just to have some of these real conversations. And it's just been. It's been beautiful, man. So I do have. I've had access, and I anticipate I will continue to have access to a lot of athletes.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: And that's where you and I connected, understanding that intersection between athletics. And I was just coming out of my transition when I was actually still in my transition, when you and I connected.
And when you talk about those short term goals, we talk about those, you know, those intermediate goals. You talk about those long term goals. You know, one of the conversations we had on the podcast not too long ago was growing up, right, when we were just jumping out the sandbox, getting ready to play sports or looking to play sports, right? We identified ourselves as athletes, right? And once we identified ourselves as athletes, there was a long term goal. And the long term goal was to get to the. Get to the big leagues, whether it be get to the NBA, but that we get to the MLB. For me, it was get to the NFL, right, this long term goal. And, you know, intermediate wise, go to school, make sure you got your good grades, because that's the only way, right? And then you want to go to college, et cetera. So following this chain of command and so your time with working with athletes, bro, like, that conversation being so impactful. Like, what was so impactful? Do you. And I don't even know if you remember that conversation, bro, but you remember that conversation, man. I do.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: I do remember it, brother.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: So, so, so when you're talking about working with athletes and saying, hey, these are some short term, long term, you know, intermediate, like, what does that look like? Especially for those of us who are jumping off the porch with this one.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Long term goal, brother, you know, as we were game planning for this episode, you know, I always go back and forth, you know, and I'll share with you what was a philosophical game changer for me and what informed. What was informing me as we were having that conversation. Good, brother. I never forget. It was 2011. It was 2011 for sure. And it was at the American Psychological Association, I believe it was, in Washington, DC. And so I talked about doctor White, but in proximity. A professor at Long Beach State was doctor Michael Connor. And Doctor Connor had told me we would have this. So we were so tapped in, brother, as mentor and mentee, that we would have. We would have at least three to four lunches every conference, right? We just be debriefing. And I never forget, you know, Doctor Connor was just sharing with me, you know, his. He always shared, but particularly he was sharing about his, you know, his. His work with athletes. And he asked me a question, brother, and you know, how sometimes, you know, you want to fit in, somebody ask you a question, you'd be trying to skate around. And then, like, he asked me a question that I couldn't skate, brother.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Couldn't get around.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Couldn't get around it, bro. He said, doc, future doc. He said, future doc, he said, do you want to help brothers get off the plantation?
Do you want to help brothers stay on the plantation?
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Oh, bruh, you might have to go ahead. Let me hear your answer.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: So, bro, I was mid chicken wing, bro, I was mid chicken wing. So I put it down, man, and I had to look him in his face.
And I. And I thought about it, man, no matter how, because at that time, you know, I had to had the experience at Fullerton, right? And I was getting some experiences at Southern Illinois where I was going to school at, right? And I thought about it, you know, how can I honor myself and honor, you know, the people like me?
And I said, doctor Connor, I want to help him get off the plantation. And most people, when they hear that, though, brother Isaiah, man, they'll say that he's anti sport, and I'm not anti sport, right, I'm anti complete development, right, because I think sport is an amazing opportunity to completely develop folk, right? But we just spent a lot of time on his physical prowess, right, which is something that leaves brothers incomplete, because we know that window for a leaguer, whether it's MLB, NFL, NBA, is five or less if you're lucky.
So, really kind of thinking about, what is the complete Isaiah look like? What does a complete re mar look like? So, really kind of thinking about that, brother. And so when I'm speaking to student athletes or athletes in general, bro, I want to lift up their humanity. I want to talk about. Okay, you got this skill set, right, to persevere at an elite level, right. What does it look like to shift that just a little bit as a professional? Right? Right. Or being able to kind of talk about some of those different things. Good, brother. And so when I'm talking about those goals, right. If we're talking sports specific, it's really breaking down that emotional, that psychological, and that physical part of how they exist. Right. In their sport. Right.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: That's deep. That's deep. That's deep. I know. You know, one of the conversations you and I had where we talk about, and we'll get into the identity foreclosure, and the way I've understood identity foreclosure, you're the first person to bring that even to my consciousness, my awareness, like, you know, I understood identity foreclosures as someone who was transitioning out of the league, right. That this sports identity was. It was now coming to a close, and I had to now figure out who Isaiah is outside of sport. And so, as I started to read a little bit within this identity foreclosure, I then started to shift the understanding of, like, this. It almost sounded like identity foreclosure was something that happens at an earlier age when we decide to wrap our whole identity up into one thing, which has been sporting. And in our last, you know, we talked about.
We had a couple of our guys on, so it was like, 819 years old. We're like, this is what we want to do, and we're putting all of our eggs in one basket. And what I've understood identity foreclosure to be, and I love for you to speak on it if I'm in the right direction, is once we put all our eggs in one basket, we're foreclosing on any other identity that we may have. And we do. There's multiple facets of us, but we're singularly focused on, this is who we are, and we're wrapping ourselves up in this one thing. And once it's over, then it becomes, well, damn, who the hell am I? Who the hell am I? Am I on part, bro, brother?
[00:20:42] Speaker B: That's like a. That's like an alley ute, brother. That's one of them. Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, alley ute's bro. So I'm. Hopefully, I can just tear the rim off, right? Oh, so, yes, sir. Just shake it, bro. And so I want. I want us to think about. I love the fact that you introduce adolescents, right?
And so when we think about young adolescents, right? So I said it earlier, you know, when we. When we're looking at Bron, right, are we looking at Mamba? Right. Thinking like, okay, I'm gonna put all my resources into developing into my version of Bron. Mamba, Jordan, ja, so forth and so on. Right? Now, when we think about it, right, when you went to Fresno State. Good brother. You know, when I went to Sac State, Humboldt State, my brother.
The term, as I do believe, unless it's changed now, and it could have changed last night, you know what I mean, is scholar athlete, right? So it's supposed to. That's. That's a. At least, right, in the formal sense, a dual identity, right? And even in k through twelve, it's positioned that way as well, right? You're a student athlete, right? So let's think about this. Identity. And student is, first, not athlete. You're not an athlete. Student. You're a student athlete. So when we think about. All right. Hmm. How do I develop critical thinking? Right. Well, if it doesn't pertain, you know, as far as the DB sense, if it doesn't pertain to the ability to read schemes on a football field, then you know what I need to learn math for?
What do I need to learn critical thinking for?
You know what I'm saying? What do I need to learn about history, right?
[00:22:34] Speaker A: The other day, doc, I said that the other day, I was like, history did not. It didn't pertain to where I was going. I said this two days ago. Oh, I love history now because it's relevant to how I'm identifying myself. Right, the history. But you're absolutely right, bro. I had to cut you off. You absolutely right.
Correct.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Now, I appreciate that, brother. Cause so, you know, if something moves you, bro, you gotta let it loose, you know? I'm not gonna get offended. Good brother. So I'm gonna build on what you just said about history, right? So if we think about the history, right, of student athletes, right? We're thinking in the 1960s, a lot of these into Jesse Owens, right? A lot of these. A lot of, you know, I'm saying Arthur Ash, right? A lot of these folk, right, were scholars, and they were. They had other identities as activists, right? Moving at the grassroots level. Right. So really kind of thinking about. Okay, Wilma Randall. So the. A lot of. A lot of folks have multiple identities. Right. On the other hand, when we position athletics. Right.
The question I have is, can it be framed in more than one way.
Right. To where we're developing completeness with the folks who are engaging. Right. In athletics. Right. So let's think about this.
And this is one of the things I talk about, and I'm very candid with the folks that I work with when we talk about, you know, the Polyjack rabbits. Right. Or the Alabama Crimson Todd. Right. Folks are taught to assert their physical prowess.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Right. So why are folks being taught to assert their bodies and not their minds? Right. Just imagine if you asserted your mentals as much as you asserted your physical body.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Absolutely. You'd be a. You'd be a more well rounded package in life, you know, not just on the fields or on the courts. You'd be. You'd have a.
It wasn't until I exited the league, bro, in 2016. 2017, where. And I said this, I said this, and I'll say this on record, I didn't. I didn't make a million dollars on the field.
Once I retired, though, I said this and I wrote it down. I said, I'm going to make a million dollars off the field with my mind.
I said that. And I'm learning how much of a practice it is to be mentally strong. And again, sports help develop a lot of skills, a lot of tools. When you're talking about developing your mental capacity, when you're developing your mental sharpness.
But again, it felt like once sport ended from the physical level, from the physical capacity, it was, okay. Now I have to apply my mind.
Right. Now I have to apply my thought. Now I have to apply these beliefs in a way that I may have not had to before when I was singularly focused on sport.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Correct.
Correct. And the thing is, the thing is, good, brother, is like, there's not a coach that will walk into a locker room and say, hey, I'm going to explicitly teach you to, you know, foreclose, right. On your intellectual. Your intellectual attitude, right. Your intellectual faculties, right? No coach is going to say that. Right?
On the other hand, no, brother, if we look at these systems, right.
Bigger, stronger, faster. Bigger, stronger, faster.
Where is the other parts of who this student might be, who this athlete might be in the realm of bigger, stronger, faster?
So really kind of thinking about, all right. How can we also include other components? Right. Financial literacy. Right, right.
Emotional regulation.
Right.
In addition to all these other identities. Right. And be selfless in how we're instituting systems to develop these folks.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: That's really good. No matter if you score a TD, are you locking you strapping up the best receiver? Right. That's awesome. Right? But see, what's even more awesome is are you more complete than when you came in leaving? That's good, right. And really kind of thinking about that because what do we see? Good, brother. We see a lot of. A lot of athletes at all levels, including high school. Once. Once that. Once they're foreclosed unwillingly, ie, ACL rotator cup. Right. Some type of. Some type of catastrophic injury, then what?
You foreclose on everything else. Right. You can't go. You can't go back and retake psychology one on one and develop a relationship with your professor so they can write a recommendation for graduate school.
We need to be proactive but not reactive in this game. So kind of thinking about, okay, what is. What does this really mean?
That's good.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: So how, if I'm a listener, how do I take this information and start applying it to athletes, whether it be at a younger age, whether it be, you know, high school, college, what are some of the things and the tools that you have done and you can hand off and say, here is some suggestions, or here are some tools that can be utilized to support. And the term that I use is the person athlete. Because to your point, you want to be able to develop the whole person. The athlete is a small part, a small of who we are.
And so with that, what are some tools that a listener can. Can think about or some knowledge or anything that they can grasp and start utilizing this free therapy right now, y'all? This free therapy? This free therapy.
[00:29:30] Speaker B: Absolutely, man. I was. I was debating if I was gonna get a book that I wrote and show it on the screen before. Before you, but I want to talk.
You said a tool, right? So, a tool is mentorship, brother. Okay, so. So a lot of these young athletes. All right, into the listeners out there, I want y'all to start thinking about mentors, right? So I'm gonna give you a couple words that can't be. Mentors are unique, but these are some things that are in the same camp as a mentor. Right. A coach.
Right.
Mentor. Right. Mentors and coach can be congruent in many different aspects and to the listeners, get you more than one mentor.
Right. So you want. You want. You want to get you a mentor. That's a scholar. Right. You want to get you a mentor that talks to you about how to regulate your emotions, right? You want to get you a mentor that talks about finances, right? So you want. You want to get you. You want to get you a family of mentors, right, that can aid in your development, right? Because, you know, I can give you the books to read, blah, blah, blah, all that other type of stuff, right? But if you want some nuts, some nuts and bolts, you know, with regards to what works, I suggest that you start there really, really looking at. Because, you know what? Guess what? Brother Isaiah is accessible, right? I'm accessible, right? We have social media. We have all these different ways, right, to really increase access, right. To these mentors, if you will. And that'll be a good. That'd be a good first step, my brother. That's what I. That's what I would recommend, you know, really, really increasing your mentorship family, if you will, or your mentorship network.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: No, that's good. We had a guest on not too long ago, Marty Reed, who also wrote a book, and I love to hear about your book and sort of the framework and paradigm of what you're shifting with your literature. But she would say, build your roster, you know, build out your roster, you know, having it on your team in different sectors, to be able to learn from. To be able to grow from. One thing that I have noticed as an adult seeking mentors and or really just.
It's almost like you get put in proximity to people that you just learn from, you know, you have learned from. And there is a couple things that I've learned, and I like to share is, one, when you get a mentor, you got to do the work.
Ain't nobody mentioning nobody mentoring anybody that ain't following. You know what I mean? So there's a level of submission that comes along with having a mentor. There's a level of a vulnerability.
There's a level of work that comes along with having a mentor moving in those directions.
And that's huge. That's huge.
I had a question for you.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: Working with. Act. When working with athletes. Doc, when working with athletes, what are some of the similarities or the main issues that you've seen that have hindered the progress of athletes either on the field or off the field?
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Hmm.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: I just came up with that. I just came up with that one, man, I was off script.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: Well, and I like it, brother. I like it. Right. And I want to really unpack it for your listeners. Right. So I want us. Why I'm taking just a little bit to make sure I respond to it in a way that the listeners can really follow along. So, to respond to your question, I would say this, and I'll provide some examples to kind of contextualize it, if you will, lack of love, right.
And how that lack of love can manifest. So let me give it to you in a few different examples, right?
I have a football, an elite footballer that I worked with, right?
And there were some performance things that were going on, but a lot of what this particular individual was dealing with was stuff off the field, right. And, like, really feeling like, okay, when the lights are on, when those lights are hot is when he is. When he heard the words I love you. Love you. We love you, man. We really love you.
When the lights were off, when injury was present, this particular individual felt unloved.
So it was. It was that dichotomy that was causing some distress in this particular individual, right? So when I think when. So when I'm working with that, because now I love working with athletes, right? I love them. But, you know, common things are.
There's a difference between setting goals so you can make more free throws. Right.
On the other hand, the work around that, right. As a person who. Who is incomplete and that support may be their particular shelter, we got more of a love problem than we got, necessarily a performance problem, if you will.
That love problem is bleeding into that performance problem.
So if we really want to address that performance problem, we got to address the love problem, right. And so really kind of thinking about these different components. When I'm working with student athletes, right, I'm going to work with elite athletes, right. I can get you a program for goal setting. I can do that tonight with my eyes closed. That's not hard at all. Right. But being able to talk about some of the. Some of the real underlining issues, right. It's more significant when you start to think about, okay, what's really impacting performance.
So the love piece will be maybe the top. The top thing, right.
Because with student athletes, with athletes in general, brother, you're going to deal with confidence, you're going to deal with stress, you're going to deal with focus, motivation, blah, blah, blah. And I'm not minimizing those things. Right. What I'm saying is that's, you know.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: I don't want to say it's easy, but, you know, if that was the only thing we had to deal with, when I work on it, man, that'd be easy work.
Most often time. That's not. That's not all that. This person is dealing with.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: We'd be all right, huh?
[00:36:32] Speaker B: We'd be all right, man. We'd be all right for sure.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: That's real. That's deep, man. That is, man. That's deep. You know, it takes me back to the scripture, man. God is love, you know? I know that you hang a lot of your work focusing on, again, the holistic well being of not just the average person that you deal with, and when it comes to faith, when it comes to the social, the emotional aspect, you know what I mean? The mental aspect that is honestly brought. I was not expecting you to say, who's not expecting you to say, there's a love deficiency there, you know?
And I would assume. And I guess the question is, or how. How important does that make your work as a therapist to how important does that make your work with athletes?
Building it makes it the holistic person building the holistic individual.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: It's huge, bro.
I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of a young brother that I worked with that, you know, he was in a tough situation with a coach, but he was sending. He was sending three, four to 50% of his. Of his scholarship check to his mom.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: Mmm.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: You know, he's worried about that, right? And he. He's trying to hold on to his shorty, and maybe ten to 15% of his mental energy he can put on being competitive at a high major, a mid. A mid to high major.
And so with the question that you just asked, like, you know, those things. So when we talk about, again, if we come back to holistic, right, we can get in the gym and talk about how to focus when you got the free throw line, right, but that ain't gonna, you know, that. What is that gonna do? What is that gonna do about sending, you know, half or three fourths of your scholarship check to your mom, right, right. And it's not because he. He wanted to do that, right. So it's not like he was begrudgingly doing that, right? He wanted. He wanted to love on his mom in that way, right? Worried about, you know, how he gonna get a crispy fade, right. Or how he gonna put gas in the. How you gonna put gas in his car?
How's he gonna, you know, buy his girl something nice for Valentine's Day, right.
So forth and so on. Right. You know, because. Because.
And not to mention, he had a fractured relationship with his father, right. Deep.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: Right? And so all in, all these. All these things come into play. Good, brother.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: It's real.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: That's real.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: I mean, I do I wish. I wish we would have met while I was playing, honestly, because, you know, I didn't start therapy until I got out of the league.
I didn't. I. There was one time where I saw a sports psychologist. I was. We were running in Africa for the USA world team, and, you know, years. Many, many years ago, man. And, of course, you talk about, you know, being in proximity to resources, because I was one of the fastest individuals in the country, and we were over representing the USA and Africa. This is my first time sitting down, you know, with the sports psychologist, and we sat down and we talked about.
It was an interesting experience because we literally just had a conversation, and she had me, like, visualizing certain things, right? Like, she had me tapping into some things that, you know, I didn't really. I didn't under.
I didn't know were available to me, you know what I mean? Because of her expertise.
And I was like, wow. Like, being able to have somebody who can really bring the best out of you, not just a coach on the field, but someone like yourself, who you can sit down with and have these honest conversations about what's going on holistically. Right. And really start to start to uncover or really start to understand how some of these things can either grow, develop, heal, and overall make you a better person. And as you become a more healed and whole person, you become a more healed and whole athlete. Right.
And so, you know, there was a. There was a stigma around therapy, of course.
Again, didn't understand the value of transparency, didn't understand the value of being able to. To shift your paradigm with someone who has the expertise and the resources and the trust factor that also goes along with that. And so, man, there's. There's a lot there, but I wish, you know, I do believe that, especially our athletes that are up now who are going through this collegiate space. We're coming up in the world of social media, where there's so many different pressures to be someone. You know what I mean?
To be a guy. To be him, as they say now. Um, yes, Timothy, you know, be him at the. But I foreclosed on so many other aspects of their life, man. And. And people like you were valuable. People with your expertise are valuable, man. And I want our listeners to know that you are a resource and other individuals who can help craft the entire person. Athlete, man, are so valuable to. Not, like, during sports, but life in general. But life in general.
[00:43:05] Speaker B: Correct, bro.
And just. Just know when you think about that, right? And this is. This, again, this is another ism that I learned from, from another black man, brother.
And, you know, doctor Parham and what he always taught me, he used to always say this to me, right? And your, you know, what you were kind of painting so vividly, you know, made me think about this, is that you can't see validation from oppressive places and or faces, bro. And what I mean by that as it connects to sports is that in some cases, right, the realm of athletics is not necessary unless you have somebody like me present, right? It's not designed to affirm your whole personhood.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: Say more, doc. Say more, doc.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: So when we think about what we've been talking about with identity foreclosure, right, somebody else. Because I got it. You know, I'll be honest with your listeners, bro. I wasn't nearly halfway as elite as you were, bro. You know, I mean, which is why I went, I went to go get a PhD. And you went to the NFL, bro.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: You both part of the 1%, man.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: When we think about it, bro, in so many, in so many areas, you were being affirmed, right, to be a Philly Eagle, to be smashing cats on the track, right?
And that's the thing about identity foreclosure, right? What's it to the NFL, right, to put some millions right into, into some things that are to help these young folk.
What do I say? Continue their development.
Dwayne Wayne said, man, I had to get a psychologist when I stopped playing hoop because I didn't know what to do with myself.
And I want to drop something else on you, brother, about identity foreclosure.
I want you and the listeners to think about grief, right?
How do we feel when we lose somebody that's important to us, right? And when we lose that identity at that elite level, we're feeling some things. We don't want to get out the bed. We don't want to talk to nobody. We want to drink, we may want to do drugs, right? We may want to have some risky behavior, right.
And really kind of be able to have these upfront, explicit conversations about, okay, what does it mean, right, to not seek validation in these places that will essentially, in so many words, drop me like a. Drive me like a hot potato, right. When I can't do nothing else for you.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: Real quick.
[00:46:03] Speaker B: Real quick. Peace. Thank you.
What they say, don't let the door hit you where the good Lord splits you, bro.
[00:46:10] Speaker A: Not on the way out.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Those are the things when I say, okay, how is this system, right? NFL, NBA, MLB, Nc. Two a affirming, validating is this a validating experience, right? Or is this an oppressive environment? And I just don't know it because I'm getting the praise, because I'm getting TD's, I'm put. I'm dunking, I'm on ESPN, I'm in the tournament, I'm getting free merch, blah, blah, blah, right? And so really being able to kind of understand, like you, man, you know, autumn lights do shine hot. They don't shine forever.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: That's real. I read it.
Go ahead, brother. I'm sorry.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: Go ahead, brother.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: You got me excited. Cause I read a study on something that you were just talking about around identity foreclosure. And there was a young man that they were interviewing, and one of the things that he said was, once the game stopped, right? Once the game stopped, and, quote, I didn't know how to be a regular dude. It's like. Like starting over, right?
I feel like I can't do anything else. So I try to hang on to this sport as long as possible.
It's losing your status.
Depressing, right? Like, again, we've singularly focused on this one thing, and once it stops, there's something else that has to take place. And I'm grat. I'm glad you brought up grief, because it is.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: It's.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: It's. It's. You're losing something. You're losing a part of yourself.
You're losing a part of yourself that you. You honed in on for 15 plus years.
I've just now got to the point maybe two. Two weeks ago, I had to say to myself, you're not him anymore.
You're not. You're not.
You're not the football playing Isaiah Green, Pittsburgh Steeler that you used to be.
Now what do you want to do and who do you want to become?
What is your. What's your. What's your mission now? Right? Like, what are some of the things that you literally have to put it to bed? I mean, it'll always be a part of who you are because you've done it. You were able to reach that goal. But it's hard to move forward if you're constantly looking back. It's hard to move forward in hating yourself if you're constantly hold on, holding on to. Well, I used to, you know, well, this is, you know, I did this or I did that. You hanging on last. You hanging on your last win. You know what I mean? And so, you know, you talk about that identity foreclosure and that social identity that the sport and community sort of puts on is, I know you as Isaiah Green, the athlete. I know you as. You know Isaiah Green, the football player. I know you as the Pittsburgh Steeler. Like, I know you as that. Like, yo, I appreciate that because there was a lot of greatness and uniqueness and eliteness that came out of that.
But now it's time to re identify myself, right? And that can be a hard topic. And so, brother, as we come to a close with this man, I want, I want to ask you if there's one thing, one word of wisdom, one thing of advice, one nugget of advice that you can give athletes that are going through the transition, what would it be?
[00:50:15] Speaker B: One bit of advice to athletes in transition.
If you don't quit, you'll finish.
[00:50:23] Speaker A: Say more.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Thinking about. When we think about transition, it is just that it's the process, right?
And earlier you spoke to tools, right? So this podcast is an example of a tool, right. That a transitioning athlete can use, right. And also, transition is never finite either. So it's always going to be a continual process, right. And if you don't quit the process of transitioning, you will come to some level of gratitude, some level of finality with regards to, okay, I'm ready to move to the next chapter, right. Finality meaning next chapter, finality, not meaning that the story's done, right. And so really kind of thinking about, okay, on the other hand, if you choose to extinct, expire, right. We never know what the next steps look like, right.
You never know how that test then becomes a testimony, if you will.
We never know the psychological and emotional resolve that you develop, you know, as a result of the transition, how that might manifest so that you can pass that story along and bless others, right? So if you don't quit, you will finish. Right? And so sometimes we. We take ourselves out the game, right? That's like me asking you, Isaiah, was there ever a moment when you were in the throes of playing in NFL that you was like, hey, coach, coach, take me out, please.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: No, sir.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. So why would you check out of your journal?
[00:52:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: And so, no, and, right. What I'm saying is also those tools, man, coming back to the tools, coming back to your mentors, right? Being able to say, hey, you know, please help me here. I have some. I have some gaps in my understanding. Yeah, right. In a fill. And if the NFL, NBA won't do it, NCAA won't do it. This is what this podcast is for.
We'll pick up the medal and do it. Let's do it.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: Let's do it, man. Doc, you hit the nail on the head. I say this, and I say this often to anybody that I work with.
It's only one rule, and you don't quit. That's it. It's only one rule. You don't quit. You know, Doctor King said, if you can't, you can't run, walk. If you can't walk, crawl. But it's only one rule. You don't quit. And it's a joke. It's a journey. And so I want to encourage everybody who is going through the transition process, or we'll go through the transition process. It will get tough.
There will be ups and there will be downs.
You know, lean in on your relationships, lean in on your community.
Tap in with professionals like Doctor Raymar Henderson, who are there to support, listen, uplift, and remember, if you don't quit, you're finished.
[00:53:57] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: Blessings, my brother. I thank you. I appreciate your expertise, your knowledge, your wisdom, your insight and your presence. You are a blessing to me. You're a blessing to all. And salute black man.
[00:54:10] Speaker B: Yes, sir. Man. Likewise, brother. Before we conclude, bro, I just want to say thank you, bro.
I really enjoyed this, man. And I do believe this is only the beginning, man. And to all your listeners, man, I want to say that brother Isaiah is a brother with a big heart. He has a heart service.
I mean, he has a heart for change. So, brother, as you on your journey, I want to continue to keep you encouraged, man.
I want to keep you encouraged and continue to keep you not only encouraged, but encouraged to be a warrior, which you are. You know what I mean? So I salute you, brother, and I appreciate the opportunity to be before you and your listeners today.
[00:54:52] Speaker A: I appreciate you, man. Appreciate you, brother. Until next time.
[00:54:55] Speaker B: Till next time, bro.
